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HTML 5 won over XHTML 2

2009-07-06 21:23:42 by Martynas Jusevičius

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A. No, we will not have two different sets of tools. XSLT etc will all work with the plain HTML serialization as well.

B. You may still use application/xhtml+xml for all non MSIE browsers, if you really need namespaces, etc. Nothing has been withdrawn.

C. "I hope there were no plans to change that, at least?" Are you serious? Such a fear is 100 % imaginary, 0 % real.

http://hsivonen.iki.fi/xhtml2-html5-q-and-a/

http://www.la-grange.net/2009/07/05/html5-xhtml5/

And how is XSLT supposed to work on HTML serialization? I would like to know. Somehow automagically XML parsers will start working with HTML as well?

Ok, I read your second link, and it proves my point completely - it is suddenly mentioning "HTML5 parsers" all over the place. Isn't that a new set of tools? Or do you see all XML tools getting HTML5 bridges like a minor issue? It's too crazy for me even to think about it, it ruins the whole purpose of XHTML.

Nah, it's all different. HTML5 parsing will need it's own new algorithms distinct to what we have been using. All those libxml based XHTML parsers (e.g. using PHP5 DOM and XPath) will need to account for the new branch as it extends into the wild. But it is cleaner, and there is a HTML5 parsing algorithm to standardise with, and it can be given a DOM compatible API. Of course, implementing as is in the native language (e.g. PHP) makes it pretty slow which is why you'll find a stack of pushes to have it included in libxml (which would eventually means it hits PHP5 or 6) so it's available more transparently even to existing clients with minimal effort. The main barrier going forward will really be developer ignorance, especially now that major browsers support the draft standard leading to the beginning of HTML5 rolling out to webservers in small steps.

Agreed. Sadly, this all-of-a-sudden acceptance of HTML (read, SGML), combined with the painful, brainless proliferation of Ajax (read, Javascript) sets the web back about 10 years. What's next - animated GIFs and marquee tags?

Maybe what Lars was referring to was Polyglot documents. That said, we already have two sets of tools, so I don't see it as being that big of an issue. The idea of converging on a single XML spec was dropped ages ago, and I don't think there are any plans for this any more. In fact the trend has been moving the other direction, away from XML. There's some good discussion regarding XHTML and HTML5 here:
http://ejohn.org/blog/html-5-data-attributes/

Also, there's the problem that only Gecko, Webkit and Presto provide full support for XHTML If you're going to use it, it's really only safe to do so on closed systems where you can safely disregard the majority (unless you're using a text/html mime type, in which case, the browser treats it as HTML anyway).

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W3C is not showing any leadership here. Seems like they're giving up to me, no?

i agree that the w3c is being to relaxed here. I thought they were supposed to be leading the pack so to speak. It's like they can't make up their minds and agree to do both ways in an effort to pacify both sides

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